Back on April 21 a couple of Mac blogs posted a story that said “Major updates to Apple’s Pro Apps will be coming atWWDC this year. This is 100 percent confirmed.” One even ended the post and said “Consider it good as done people!” This post was discussed again on Twitter yesterday. Rumors never die on Twitter [and I guess posts like this doesn't help either ; ) ]
That’s pretty confident. Is it out of the realm of possibility that Apple will announce new Pro Apps at the World Wide Developer Conference? Of course not. Current train of thought says that this year’s WWDC will be iPhone related with the new iPhone 3.0 os around the corner and even a new iPhone itself taking center stage. But it wouldn’t at all surprise me if new Pro Apps are announced as well. It would seem that the most logical place to announce the Pro Apps would have been in April at NAB 09 but despite rumors that it would happen the event came and went with nothing. Many opinions are that Final Cut Studio 3 will take advantage of Apple’s updated OS Snow Leopard so that’s one reason that this update seems to be taking so long to happen. With that it makes perfect sense that the Pro Apps could be updated (or at least announced) at WWDC since that conference is often dedicated to the Mac OS, even though the iPhone now plays a very prominent role. One likely scenario: Snow Leopard gets a progress report with a mention of the applications that will take most advantage of it – a new Final Cut Pro being a lead among them. Then new iPhones.
But more than when this will happen the Mac Soda article states something even more interesting: “There will be native RED and XDCAM support. There will be a major UI overhaul in Color. There will be a new Motion/Shake.”
That first statement is the most interesting: There will be native RED and XDCAM support.
If this proves to be true it will be a major shift in the whole philosophy behind Final Cut Pro. Native RED and XDCAM support would mean that FCP would natively allow non – .mov files into a Final Cut Pro timeline. This would be huge. I was talking to a former Apple employee at NAB this year about this very thing. He said that since day 1 of FCP word has come down from executives “on high” that Final Cut Pro is to only support .mov QuickTime files. Makes sense, that’s Apple own architecture. We all know that it is possible for FCP to support non-.mov files in a timeline. Look at Gluetools and MXF Import as third parties that are making this happen. The current supported way to work with this file based media in FCP is to rewrap everything via the Log and Transfer window. This is a process that takes time and disk space. Even what people call the “native” RED editing in FCP isn’t as it has to rewrap the .R3D files as .movs. That is not native editing.
There was a time when FCP’s QuickTime based architecture was heralded as a God-send, especially against Avid’s proprietary OMF format which meant that everything (graphics, audio, QuickTimes) had to be converted before it could be brought in to an Avid for edit. Today it almost seems silly that FCP can’t natively support formats other than QuickTimes, especially considering all of the different file-based cameras on the market. Avid has opened up a new way of thinking with its Avid Media Access architecture. It really shows the ease with which an NLE can see this new tapeless media and how fast it can be to work with it. If the old walls of Avid can come down then surely FCP do the same. This has been discussed before, most famously by Mike Jones and his talk about the new JVC QuickTime cameras. It does indeed seem like a step backwards for a camera manufacturer to make .mov files out of the camera instead of Final Cut Pro opening up to natively support open formats that the cameras are shooting to. We in post get frustrated with all of the different format that camera manufactures roll out but the software adapts and often makes things better and easier … case in point, Avid Media Access.
I will anxiously await this upgrade to Final Cut Pro 7 to see if it will allow for “native RED and XDCAM support.” But my gut tells me not bloody likely.
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At first I dismissed the rumors of FCS 3 at WWDC as the same that predicted it would be released at NAB, MacWorld, etc, etc.
And thinking about it, I really didn’t think Apple would have time to squeeze ProApps into a schedule that would inevitably be crammed with iPhone OS 3.0 and Snow Leopard.
But then I thought – how on earth will Apple show off the improvements in Snow Leopard? They’re not going to show you how much faster it is at importing pictures into iPhoto – they’re going to show you how much faster it is at doing a strenuous task like processing video.
So it is entirely plausible that they will release FCS 3 at WWDC (or at least announce it). But if it is as big a release as everyone is predicting, they’d have to dedicate some time to it and the schedule may not allow that. I don’t think a mere mention would be sufficient – I’d be expecting a demonstration.
So we’ll have to wait and see I guess.
Great point Jon.
I guess the really big question is did FCP get a full rewrite to take real advantage of Snow Leopard. After several conversations at NAB it seems the consensus was that FCP was getting/going to get a full rewrite but it wasn’t anywhere near ready. Who knows. At this point it’s not far away so I guess we might outta just wait!
With all the talk about FCP 7 and AVID and working with native files, I miss Premiere Pro.
I know it’s not the greatest editing system but take a look at Premiere Pro 4.1 and you can see something interesting. Native editing of all major camera brands (P2, XDCAM, AVCHD, RED) but now even native editing of the dreaded .VOB files. Yes .VOB you now those on the DVD’s your helpful clients bring over on their DVD’s all finished for the DVD player and useless for editing.
If Apple would bring that kind of compatibility to FCP it would make it a must buy upgrade. I really prefer FCP over Premiere but Adobe is doing some amazing work on Premiere.
“After several conversations at NAB it seems the consensus was that FCP was getting/going to get a full rewrite but it wasn’t anywhere near ready.”
A consensus between people who couldn’t possibly know let’s not forget…
The rewrite was probably well underway before it was common knowledge that 64 bit carbon was no longer on the agenda. Is it just me that thought the FCP 5.1-6.0 upgrade was a bit thin on the ground? I thought the inclusion of Color distracted many from how light the FCP new features were so FCP7 will probably been in development for 3 years not the 2 since FCS2 hit. In the last 2 years we haven’t seen anything other than tinkering to squash some bugs and to assist some new formats that have arrived. The RED workflow is obviously an interim not a final solution. Apple were there at the beginning with RED so I assume they have access to the same info as Assimilate who do have a native RT RED working product in Scratch. Expect Color to grow some balls soon…
I agree wholeheartedly with Jon as it is something I’ve been saying for sometime that of all of Apple’s software the ProApps really are tailor made for exploiting the new technologies of OpenCL, Grand Central and QTX. I expect a demo of ProApps+Snow Leopard at WWDC. Native RT Editing/Grading of 2k or 4k RED in FCS3 would be a great demo even though I’m no fan of the “RED Hype” machine it would be an excellent benchmark. I could certainly see some Mac Pros flying out the Apple Store on the strength that.
However, there has only just been a freeze on the SL APIs so I’d guess there is still sometime before we see the FCS3 end product but I’d be very happy to be completely wrong on that one! FCS2 was demoed at NAB but then took some months to be released as I remember so if Apple go with that we may see FCS at the end of the summer.
It was all doom and gloom not long ago with the ProApps are for sale….seems like a long time ago!
“I know it’s not the greatest editing system but take a look at Premiere Pro 4.1…”
I’d argue that point (as a PPro editor), but I can tell you that native editing is the best. The perception among many editors seems to be that FCP is light years ahead of PPro, but in fact PPro has had native editing for quite some time now – among other great features.
I have little doubt that when ever Apple does release FCS3, it will have some amazing new features. Apple’s been working on it far too long for it not.
I think Apple have been working on this Cocoa FCP for many years. FCP just got minor updates since 2004. New formats, some bugfixes and XML export to work with Motion and SoundTrack. It´s not an easy task writing a video editing tool for the future. Both FCP and Avid have old code in them. Premiere got newer code but still have a long way to go. None of them brings a revolution in workflow like Avid did in the beginning of the 90s and FCP did in the late 90s. Can´t wait for this update!!!
My only issue with Apple’s method is their secrecy.
RED has the most loyal following I have ever seen for a product and that is largely due to their transparency. They are honest about delays, but their customers trust them that even the delays are worth it, because the communicate what is being worked on under the hood. I have heard talk as well of editors feeling forgotten due to the success of the latest igadget.
All I am asking is a word from Apple letting us know they are working and we are not forgotten.
Great observation Scott
To my mind Apple, sadly, have a BIG PROBLEM… And its a problem they have had before and not seemed to learned the lesson.
When FCP6 was released (in the guise of FCS2) It contained NOT A SINGLE ‘NEW’ THING. Not one. Everything in FCP6, that was an improvement from FCP5, was simply a catch-up to what every other NLE had had months or even years before.
I wrote about this in a blog entry entitled ‘Where did all the new-ness go?’
http://blogs.digitalmediaonlineinc.com/digitalbasin/entry/200704151
ProRes was a copy of DNxHD and Cineform. Multi-format timeline was something everyone else had been enjoying for a very long time. 24bit 96k audio was standard everywhere but FCP. Multi-cam was nothing new, the list goes on. There was no innovation or market leadership in FCP6 as there had been in previous versions – namely 2 and 3. FCP6 was merely playing catchup to the 8-ball.
I said then that Apple needed to desperately get in front of the ball and release an FCP7 very quickly… They failed. FCP7 is far far too long coming. By the time it does get here I’ll be not at all surprised if it delivers nothing but catchup again. In fact i fail to see how unless Apple truly come out with a from-scractch re-write of FCP into something mind-blowing, that FCP7 can be anything but a disappointment.
What do we hope for in FCP7/FCS3…?
- A real-time engine that can actually scale decoding resolution.
- Actual 4k 4096px support
- Project files able to be fully exchanged with Motion/Colour/DVDSP
- GPU acceleration (used for much more than page-twirl transitions)
- Surround sound audio
- Greatly improved audio tools in general (this is a VERY long list that starts with the ability to playback a bloody MP3 files without RENDERING!!!!)
- Metadata management
- And of course ‘real’ native format suppourt
And yet even though all these in FCP7 would be a lovely improvement over FCP6, everyone of these is Already available in FCP’s competitors – namely Premiere, vegas and Avid. And moreover, has been for a LONG time.
There’s only so long Apple can continue to bring very late delivery of NLE features that its competitors take for granted before it starts losing market share and industry respect. Unless Apple pull some of the guys off the damned iPhone and start putting some real resources into ProApps development then they’ll be perpetually behind the market. Each new version of FCP only able to deliver what everyone else already has. I find myself asking where did Apple the innovator went?
I hope that im wrong. i hope that FCP doesnt just catchup but goes way passed where the others are at with FCS3. I hope they deliver integration Better than Adobe’s. I hope they deliver audio tools better than those in Vegas. I hope they deliver project management better than Avid. But the shift from where FCP is right now to this fantasy is so Huge that i just dont think it’s possible. And that’s a real shame.
At the film school where I teach students learn FCS first and the Adobe CS and are then free to choose whatever apps and workflow suits them and their projects… Needless to say, FCS isnt popular in the latter part of the course….
Mike Jones
Head of Technological Arts
International Film School Sydney
http://www.digitalbasin.net
http://www.mikejones.net.au
My impression is that Apple is purposely forcing .MOV on everyone in hope that other device makers begin capturing their raw content directly into .MOV. AVCHD is just a flavour of MPEG-4, and technically, there shouldn’t be any problems wrapping it inside .MOV; same for other, more professional, proprietary wrappers with some MPEG-4 (or MPEG-2) flavour inside them.
Apple’s long lasting battle continues to be the one for QuickTime (against Win Media). In that battle, it is sometimes willing to sacrifice other products, such as FCP/FCE/iMovie.
Let us hope I’m wrong.
I am hopeful they fold Shake into FCS3. Doesn’t make sense why it is stand alone anymore. You basically would then have the most powerful editing studio in one box. In fact they should buy out a 3D app(s) with all that cash they have. Poser and Lightwave would be a good combination. With all the cash on hand, the sky is the limit.
But then again, they have been distracted by the iPhone the past two years…
Final Cut Pro 7 if it does come out needs a lot of things to at least cope up with the competition. The native editing of various tapeless formats is one thing but the bright grey UI is something else. Just being able to darken the interface is worth an upgrade and proofing tools like clipnotes is so much more worth it. Native ease in making a standard DVD besides iDVD or complex DVD Studio Pro is needed plus Blu-Ray support. There are times you just need a standard simple DVD to play back in a loop for a tradeshow and FCS2 makes this so hard to produce.
Cmon Apple. Look at what’s cooking at the neighbors house. Try to cook something better.
Has anyone here taken a serious look at the new
Sony Vegas Pro?
just thinking of the recent events here… over a billion apps recently sold- a quadtrillion songs downloaded, iphone v3.0 just around the corner, people lining up at apple stores on the RUMOR of a new iphone- if i were running a company why would i want to invest so much resources into a complex app such as a professional video post app?
That’s funny, I heard a rumor that Apple was going to drop the Pro App suite all-together and concentrate on their core products.
If you look at their track record, this may be what happens!
I, for one, will not like it because I bought a power mac right before the intel chip macs were shipped. (stupid me!) I am angry that the power pc structure is not getting much support anymore and a lot of apps are intel only, which is probably what the new releases are going to be. Same with snow kitty. I really don’t have another 3 grand to stay current hardware-wise and another 3 or so for software upgrades. And what’s with firewire 800 only in the new machines? Now I’ve got to get a $2,000 capture deck/card. Bummer for me.
I think it would be just fantastic if we could actually talk to someone from the Final Cut company. Isn’t Final Cut actually another company than Apple? Apple simply owns Final Cut but Final Cut employees are not Apple employees as far as I know.
When we used Discrete Edit*, we had a line of communication to the development team. If we all needed something, we talked to them about it. They would fix it or write it and then send it to us. I have NEVER been able to discuss anything Final Cut with anyone from Final Cut. It’s like they are all hiding from us. A very poor way to conduct business.
I agree Premiere has some nice tools, but I never met a Premiere machine that was so stable and that didn’t let me down when I was under the gun to get a project off of it. FCP has always been stable on my system, with little exception.
re Apple’s secrecy. It’s an amazing phenomenon. What do they say to their employees and others-in-the-know, to make everyone toe the line? They should give lessons to the CIA.
how about AVCHD. will the new FCP support that in a realistic way?
“It does indeed seem like a step backwards for a camera manufacturer to make .mov files out of the camera instead of Final Cut Pro opening up to natively support open formats that the cameras are shooting to.”
—More than a step backwards, it’s an unprecedented case of “kow towing” and will only serve to make Apple more stubborn.
That’s the last thing we need.
How about the AJA Ki Pro which offer’s ProRes 422HQ native encoding… All you gotta do is put a lens on that box and you have a camera. And what does all of the secrecy do for Apple? I dont understand how it serves them.
It seems from my experience over the last 3 months that things are changing at Apple and not for the better. It took nearly 3 months for my new MacPro to arrive due to delays with the RAID card. My 2 24″ displays arrived over a month before the macpro (ordered at the same time) with no way to connect display number 2. Finally today after 3 weeks of trying to get an answer from Apple I was told that I need to purchase an additional video card to support monitor #2. I went over a week without hearing from my sales rep, and he only called after my 3rd call to him. Initially when I called Apple care the guy had no idea how to connect my second display. Apple doesn’t even make an adaptor to use a second display with the highest end card they sell with the MacPro. I also learned today they haven’t shipped my FCS2 that was ordered 3 weeks ago. I know this seems like ranting, but it sure seems like they could care less about supporting their longtime clients.
“And what does all of the secrecy do for Apple? I dont understand how it serves them.”
Really?
You don’t think the continual speculation, rumours and blog discussions keep FCS prominent in the minds of the post community without Apple spending a single penny on advertising serves them well? The less Apple say the more the rumours intensify and the more is written.
Look at all the speculation concerning WWDC not a single line of copy from Apple marketing but just about every corner of the internet from blogs to twitter to rumour sites are spewing out speculation about iPhones, iPods, Snow Leopard, FCS3 and the One more thing! Apple simply could not afford to pay for that sort of exposure and it gets it for free…
That’s how it serves them.
Steve’s got a good point. No other company in the world (with the exception of maybe RED) gets this kind of free press over all the rumor-mongering that we all do. I’ll admit that I’m as guilty as the next as I make my living with this stuff … I want it good and I want it now!!! Be it Apple stuff, Avid stuff, RED stuff, Canon stuff ……..
“I agree Premiere has some nice tools, but I never met a Premiere machine that was so stable and that didn’t let me down when I was under the gun to get a project off of it. ”
Anthony – I’d be happy to show my very stable and reliable PPro CS4 workstation. It’s never let me down. I wouldn’t trade it for FCP any day.
It is clear that FCP is not Apple’s biggest priority, and for that reason they will have trouble staying ahead of companies like Avid who only target one market and can concentrate their resources on fewer products.
Simple solution – open it up to developers. Make it so that pretty much every aspect can be automated and customized – from new timeline tools to custom GUI skins to scripted tasks. Let the developers create what the people want, instead of us waiting years for the next version of FCP.
aaah, the days of Moviola and Steenbeck, when all we had to worry about was the work print getting ripped.
AVID lost me with their attitude toward Mac users and Apple gives me serious heartburn with Media Management. Sure there are other programs out there but Avid and FCP are the mainstream players and both need adjustments of attitude. Avid’s non backward compatibility and FCP’s lack of rock solid media management are both serious issues. I also agree that Apple could be more transparent but in this day and age of global melt down large corporations and governments are slow to understand this need. AVID suffers from flexibility and Apple suffers from ego. Just my view from the bottom of the World.
I have worked on Film since 1967, AVID since 1993 and FCP since 1999.
I lost Film, Film has never lost me
ps, today, right now, editing an indie feature, aka Dogma, and I would love to be able to burn a reasonable viewing DVD straight from the Time Line without having to struggle through Compressor which continually tells me I have a problem with installation. Bugger me, I have had a problem with FCP installation from the get go. Sigh!
Is anyone one out there listening?
Hal, where are you Hal?
Jon
I can’t disagree with you more.
The ProApps team are just one division in Apple and Apple’s push into mobile computing with the iPhone is a seperate concern.
The ProApps are on a 2 year development cycle which is a year out of sync with Avid and Adobe so you will see the the continual leapfrogging of features between apps. If the development cycle is too short you just end up over burdening the cyle with testing and get less of an actual update. 18 months – 2 years cycle is pretty standard and ensure a good balance of development to testing time, any shorter and you’d just get point releases and pay more for them.
I don’t think open-source, which is what you are suggesting, will have any benefit to the end-user. How do Apple make money from open-source FCS?
It appears no one is listening at Apple. I just moved our studio to Avid. We only crashed on FCP. Lost hours a day due technical issues and Apples sorry-assed ‘fixes’. Colour is worthless. Timecode anyone? Hello? Apple is in the consumer electronics business now. That’s where their revenue comes from, not the Mac Pro and FCP. And so, we migrated. Avid works, they are devoted to keeping ahead of the curve and their upgrades are meaningful.
Just shot some footage on a Sony XDcam EX1 and was surprised to find there’s no way to get the footage into FCP 5. Checked on buying FCP 6 and found that it is 1 to 2 weeks delivery at the Apple Store.
Could this be a sign that FCP 7 is coming?
And, while I’m on the subject, does anyone know how i can get XDcam footage into FC 5- even for a rough cut?
Whoa… my crystal ball was right!
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